Emphasis is important in theology. A church can believe in a doctrine but not emphasize it over a period of time. An example is 'sola gratia' - grace alone. Dr. R.C. Sproul is a very honest Reformed theologian and he says in his book "Faith Alone" that the Catholic Church has always fought to maintain that salvation is by the grace of God alone (though obviously not by faith alone, hence the Reformation). Louis Bouyer writes that if the Church focussed more on Grace Alone during the time of the Reformation, it is probable that the issues would have been settled. This is quite a claim of course, and easily debatable, but the general principle is that emphasis matters.
Jansenism is intriguing to me because I like it's emphasis, in only a few ways does it contradict Church teaching (possibly teaching limited atonement, and irresistible grace), but it places great emphasis on Election and the sovereign grace of God and faith in the work of Christ. It never denies that works justify or the nature of the communion or anything else like that (from the little of what I've read), but it does emphasize what I think at least is the 'best' of Protestantism and Catholicism.
Jansen himself wrote that if his doctrines were offensive to the Church that they should of course be disposed of and that he wished to be faithful to the Church, and I believe that is the point. The point is that emphasis needs to be reformed at times or shifted depending on the situation. Baptists for example believe in an eternally Hell for all believers which they will be conscious during, but I've never heard a sermon on it, because it's just alluded to briefly or like an 'unwritten law' that it exists. Thus if their churches start to doubt Hell, they should emphasize it.
Thus while I am not a Jansenist because it has been declared heretical, I definately agree with the emphasis and that the good parts of it's theology should be emphasized more. I don't know why people think Election is such a horrific doctrine, St. Paul, St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and alot of others are in agreement that it is a beautiful thing. Active reprobation...is another story.
Showing posts with label R.C. Sproul. Show all posts
Showing posts with label R.C. Sproul. Show all posts
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
Thursday, August 21, 2008
There is None Augustinian - No Not Even One...
"...while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in his sight" - Council of Trent (ch.5 in the 6th session)
"The Council of Trent tried to steer a course on the razor's edge between semi-Pelagianism and Reformed thought. It is arguable that they cut themselves on that razor." - R.C. Sproul "Faith Alone" (p.113)
"John Piper is bad" - Rev. John Piper
One realizes in the Catholic-Protestant debates that the Augustine-Pelagius debates take a centre stage. Many times I greatly dislike St. Augustine - don't get me wrong, he's a great theologian, and I loved his confessions. However it seems he caused too many problems. I can see why some Orthodox don't even think him a saint and think him more heterodox or heretical, than defender of Christian orthodoxy. One Orthodox theologian I read, said the problem with Augustine is that he wasn't consistent, he changed his mind as time went on, and that's why he wrote the retractions. This theologian said that many times people on opposite sides of the debate would quote St. Augustine in their favour and disagree when in actuality, Augustine contradicted himself. This would certainly make sense in my opinion, as Augustine has been cited by people from pretty much every theological camp in existence.
On Jared's blog he has a quote from Augustine's commentary on John 6:44 and it shows that Augustine taught irresistible grace, but I could come up with other quotes from 'grace and freewill' that would probably contradict it. As R.C. Sproul shows us in his polemical - but fair- book, is that the Catholic Church originally took this position of Augustinianism in the Council of Orange, however in Trent they took a semi-Pelagian position (almost identical actually in many ways to John Wesley and Methodist theology, with the whole prevenient grace and semi-Pelagianism).
But like any good portion of history the Catholics always have a loophole, the Council of Orange was local and not ecumenical, hence it can't be seen as infallible. They always find a way...
Thus I find Catholicism not Augustinian.
The Calvinist view which Jared has educated me on, makes alot of sense, and I'd be quick to side with them if I just went on emotion rather than reason (as Total Depravity gives me a good excuse for most things). However I have shown before that other Church Fathers such as St. Gregory of Nyssa clearly contradict this narrow or limited view of free-will, indeed St. Augustine I believe is the only one near it.
Thus I find Calvinism not Augustinian.
...And once again the Orthodox win the argument as the Western Christians squabble for 1000 years about the theology of one man.
...But Orthodoxy and Calvinism lose in the catholicity test... so Catholicism wins by default, according to my arbitrary arbitration.
"The Council of Trent tried to steer a course on the razor's edge between semi-Pelagianism and Reformed thought. It is arguable that they cut themselves on that razor." - R.C. Sproul "Faith Alone" (p.113)
"John Piper is bad" - Rev. John Piper
One realizes in the Catholic-Protestant debates that the Augustine-Pelagius debates take a centre stage. Many times I greatly dislike St. Augustine - don't get me wrong, he's a great theologian, and I loved his confessions. However it seems he caused too many problems. I can see why some Orthodox don't even think him a saint and think him more heterodox or heretical, than defender of Christian orthodoxy. One Orthodox theologian I read, said the problem with Augustine is that he wasn't consistent, he changed his mind as time went on, and that's why he wrote the retractions. This theologian said that many times people on opposite sides of the debate would quote St. Augustine in their favour and disagree when in actuality, Augustine contradicted himself. This would certainly make sense in my opinion, as Augustine has been cited by people from pretty much every theological camp in existence.
On Jared's blog he has a quote from Augustine's commentary on John 6:44 and it shows that Augustine taught irresistible grace, but I could come up with other quotes from 'grace and freewill' that would probably contradict it. As R.C. Sproul shows us in his polemical - but fair- book, is that the Catholic Church originally took this position of Augustinianism in the Council of Orange, however in Trent they took a semi-Pelagian position (almost identical actually in many ways to John Wesley and Methodist theology, with the whole prevenient grace and semi-Pelagianism).
But like any good portion of history the Catholics always have a loophole, the Council of Orange was local and not ecumenical, hence it can't be seen as infallible. They always find a way...
Thus I find Catholicism not Augustinian.
The Calvinist view which Jared has educated me on, makes alot of sense, and I'd be quick to side with them if I just went on emotion rather than reason (as Total Depravity gives me a good excuse for most things). However I have shown before that other Church Fathers such as St. Gregory of Nyssa clearly contradict this narrow or limited view of free-will, indeed St. Augustine I believe is the only one near it.
Thus I find Calvinism not Augustinian.
...And once again the Orthodox win the argument as the Western Christians squabble for 1000 years about the theology of one man.
...But Orthodoxy and Calvinism lose in the catholicity test... so Catholicism wins by default, according to my arbitrary arbitration.
Sunday, August 3, 2008
Faith Alone
I started reading R.C. Sproul's book "by faith alone" today. I really believe the bible teaches Sola Fide, it is the only gospel I can hope in, because I'm a totally depraved sinner, and only the blood of Christ will save me.
A famous Protestant once said that this is the doctrine on which the church stands or falls, the doctrine that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. Now I can't find that doctrine anywhere in church history before Luther (maybe a bit in St. Augustine), but as I re-read Romans I cannot possibly read a Catholic interpretation into it, no matter how hard I've tried. Ultimately these are just some of the verses that point to justification by faith alone, and yes I've read James 2:24, but honestly in light of all the other verses that go against it, I am obligated to believe either 1) St. James was wrong, or 2) that Calvin's interpretation of it was right, namely that the KIND of faith that bears no works, is NOT saving faith, and thus it alone cannot save a man. As Melancthon reminds us faith alone justifies, but the faith that justifies is never alone.
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."
Sproul argues in his book that IF the gospel is justification by faith alone, then it is an essential doctrine and any church, meaning a church that doesn't teach this doctrine cannot be truly Christian. Of course the debate is all in the IF, but I think I've finally come back to this doctrine of the Reformation. And as Luther once prayed in a courtroom in Worms... may God help me.
A famous Protestant once said that this is the doctrine on which the church stands or falls, the doctrine that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. Now I can't find that doctrine anywhere in church history before Luther (maybe a bit in St. Augustine), but as I re-read Romans I cannot possibly read a Catholic interpretation into it, no matter how hard I've tried. Ultimately these are just some of the verses that point to justification by faith alone, and yes I've read James 2:24, but honestly in light of all the other verses that go against it, I am obligated to believe either 1) St. James was wrong, or 2) that Calvin's interpretation of it was right, namely that the KIND of faith that bears no works, is NOT saving faith, and thus it alone cannot save a man. As Melancthon reminds us faith alone justifies, but the faith that justifies is never alone.
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."
Sproul argues in his book that IF the gospel is justification by faith alone, then it is an essential doctrine and any church, meaning a church that doesn't teach this doctrine cannot be truly Christian. Of course the debate is all in the IF, but I think I've finally come back to this doctrine of the Reformation. And as Luther once prayed in a courtroom in Worms... may God help me.
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